Legislature(1993 - 1994)

04/19/1994 09:03 AM Senate CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         SENATE COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                         
                         April 19, 1994                                        
                           9:03 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Randy Phillips, Chairman                                              
 Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman                                           
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
 Senator Al Adams                                                              
 Senator Fred Zharoff                                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 All Members Present                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 543(STA)                                                
 "An Act relating to unvented gas space heaters in residential                 
 buildings."                                                                   
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 259 (title am)                                                 
 "An Act relating to general grant land entitlements for the Lake              
 and Peninsula Borough; and providing for an effective date."                  
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 375                                                           
 "An Act relating to general grant land entitlements."                         
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 HB 543 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
 HB 259 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
 SB 375 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Joseph Easaw, Staff to Representative Al Vezey                                
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information on HB 543                          
                                                                               
 Keith Kettler                                                                 
 Kettler Enterprises                                                           
 2333 Judson St.                                                               
 Longmont, CO 80501-1040                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 543                         
                                                                               
   Ms. Dani Nowell                                                             
 Anchorage, AK                                                                 
 Phone No. (907) 344-0700                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Questions on HB 543                                    
                                                                               
 Karen Brand, Staff to Representative Carl Moses                               
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information on HB 259                          
                                                                               
 Jeff Parker                                                                   
 1201 Hyder                                                                    
 Anchorage, AK 99502                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in opposition to passage                     
                      of HB 259                                                
                                                                               
 Alice Ruby                                                                    
 Box 330                                                                       
 Dillingham, AK 99576                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed to HB 259                                      
                                                                               
 Terry Hoefferle                                                               
 Box 310                                                                       
 Dillingham, AK 99576                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   HB 259 needs more public comment                       
                                                                               
 Angela Gerken                                                                 
 Ted Gerken                                                                    
 Iliaska Lodge                                                                 
 P.O. Box 228                                                                  
 Iliamna, AK 99606                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in opposition to HB 259                      
                                                                               
 Keith Harsh                                                                   
 HC01 Box 12430                                                                
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Has concerns with HB 259                               
                                                                               
 Jerry Liboff                                                                  
 Box 646                                                                       
 Dillingham, AK 99576                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Urged delaying passage of HB 259                       
                                                                               
 Sylvia Cassidy                                                                
 Homer, AK                                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposes HB 259                                         
                                                                               
 Ron Swanson, Director                                                         
 Division of Land                                                              
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 P.O. Box 107005                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99510-7005                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information on HB 259                          
 Frank Rue, Director                                                           
 Habitat & Restoration Division                                                
 Department of Fish & Game                                                     
 P.O. Box 255256                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99802-5526                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information on HB 259                          
                                                                               
 Bruce Geraghty, Deputy Commissioner                                           
 Department of Community & Regional Affairs                                    
 Box 112100                                                                    
 Juneau, AK 99811-2100                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 259                         
                                                                               
 Larmar Cotten                                                                 
 Lake & Peninsula Borough                                                      
 P.O. Box 495                                                                  
 King Salmon, AK 99613                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Offered information in support of HB 259               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-29, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
 The Senate Community & Regional Affairs Committee was called to               
 order by Chairman Randy Phillips at 9:03 a.m.  He introduced  CSHB
 543(STA)  (UNVENTED GAS HEATERS IN RESIDENTIAL BLDGS) as the first            
 order of business.                                                            
                                                                               
 JOSEPH EASAW, staff to Representative Al Vezey, explained the                 
 legislation allows the use of unvented gas-fired room heaters in              
 residential dwellings in the State of Alaska.  It mandates that               
 these heaters must meet the requirements of the American National             
 Standards Institute (ANSI), Z21.11.2.                                         
                                                                               
 Unvented gas-fired room heaters have been in existence for more               
 than 30 years in Europe, and there are more than two million of               
 them in use in the United States since 1981 without any instances             
 of fatalities attributable to unvented gas heaters manufactured for           
 indoor use.  He noted that the Consumer Product Safety Commission             
 has said that unvented gas heaters are six times safer than vented            
 gas heaters.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Benefits of using unvented gas heaters are:  (1) they are cheaper             
 to use than heating fuel and electricity; and (2) they are nearly             
 100 percent efficient.                                                        
                                                                               
 Mr. Easaw pointed out that carbon monoxide produced by vent free              
 gas heaters is about one fourth of that produced by gas cook                  
 stoves.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 115                                                                    
 KEITH KETTLER of Kettler Enterprises, testifying from Longmont                
 Colorado, related there are 18 manufacturers of vent-free                     
 fireplaces and, additionally, there are approximately a dozen or              
 more who make only the invented heaters.  These appliances are                
 approved by every building code used in the United States except              
 the Uniform Mechanical Code (UMC) that is used in Alaska.  He noted           
 that in many areas where the UMC is used, building officials have             
 approved these appliances as alternate material.  He then outlined            
 the safety standards required in the manufacturing of these                   
 appliances.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Mr. Kettler concluded that a vent-free heater is an appliance that            
 has an established track record, a prudent safety record, and is              
 the most efficient option on the market in the United States today.           
                                                                               
 Number 197                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. DANI NOWELL, testifying from Anchorage, said the bill                     
 legislation speaks to "unvented gas heaters" and if this is                   
 addressing just room heaters, it should specify that it is strictly           
 a room gas heater, not unvented gas heaters because that would                
 incorporate many different types.   KEITH KETTLER responded that              
 the verbiage in the bill makes it very clear that the standard is             
 the gas-fired room heater.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 225                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Kettler what the significant difference              
 was between the type of heater that Ms. Nowell referred to and the            
 type of heater that he is promoting.  KEITH KETTLER answered that             
 he has never heard of any vent-free heater or unvented heater that            
 is other than a room heater.  He added there is only one ANSI                 
 standard (Z21.11.2) that he is aware of for gas-fired room heaters.           
 The ANSI standard limits the size of these heaters to 40,000 BTUs,            
 so  the legislation is not talking about a furnace system for a               
 whole house.  That is not the intent of the bill, nor would those             
 be allowed under the Z21.11.2 standard.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 275                                                                    
                                                                               
 There being no further witnesses to testify on HB 543, SENATOR                
 RANDY PHILLIPS stated the bill would be back before the committee             
 at its next meeting for more public testimony.                                
 Number 300                                                                    
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS brought  HB 259 (title am)  (LAND GRANT FOR            
 LAKE & PENINSULA BOROUGH) before the committee as the next order of           
 business.                                                                     
                                                                               
 KAREN BRAND, staff to Representative Carl Moses, explained the                
 legislation statutorily authorizes 187,000 acres as an entitlement            
 for the Lake and Peninsula Borough (LPB),  and it gives the LPB               
 until October 1, 1996 to select those lands.  The 187,000 acre                
 figure represents a little less than three percent of the total               
 state lands within the borough.                                               
                                                                               
 The borough assembly and planning commission have developed a                 
 comprehensive borough plan and have identified certain lands of               
 interest to them.  Since there is very little land available from             
 Vacant, Unappropriated, and Unreserved (VUU) inventories, and                 
 because other state lands would need reclassification before                  
 issuance of grant land to the LPB, pursuing entitlements through              
 the formula in AS 29.65.030 would delay the certification process             
 for the LPB.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Ms. Brand said the formula in Title 29 that determines land                   
 entitlements for newly formed boroughs has not been an effective              
 tool for the department in calculating that number.  DNR has                  
 instead encouraged boroughs to work with their planning commissions           
 and then come to the department and work with them in either                  
 reclassifying the lands and reconveying them or selecting other               
 lands.                                                                        
                                                                               
 HB 259 would raise the priority for processing grant land                     
 entitlements for the LPB, and it does not apply to any other                  
 boroughs or municipalities.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 348                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS announced that testimony on HB 259 would be            
 taken over the teleconference network.                                        
                                                                               
 JEFF PARKER, representing the Anchorage Fish & Game Advisory                  
 Committee and testifying from Anchorage, urged that HB 259 be held            
 in committee for additional hearings, and he also suggested it be             
 referred to the Senate Resources Committee.  He advised that he               
 would be submitting a petition of 430 signatures opposing HB 259.             
 Their primary concern is that there are many types of changes                 
 coming at the Bristol Bay drainages, not only from the LPB                    
 interests, but also from a prospective new borough, the university            
 lands bill, the Mental Health Lands settlement, etc.  They believe            
 the public should have the opportunity to see what the final land             
 ownership pattern is going to look like when these various entities           
 settle upon their lands.  HB 259 is like piecemeal decision making            
 as to what the final land ownership pattern is going to be.                   
                                                                               
 Number 413                                                                    
                                                                               
 ALICE RUBY, a council member for the City of Dillingham testifying            
 on behalf of the Bristol Bay CRSA Board from Dillingham, stated               
 opposition to HB 259.   They just recently became aware of the                
 legislation, as well as some of the other tracts the LPB has                  
 identified for selection.   She said it takes time to get the word            
 out to the villages in their area so that they have the opportunity           
 to understand the issues surrounding the bill and to make their               
 concerns known to the Legislature.   She voiced concern that                  
 language in the bill provides the LPB with a great deal of                    
 selectable acreage.  She requested the committee delay passage of             
 the legislation so that more information can be provided to the               
 committee, and to have other agencies address the committee about             
 other concerns in the region.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 460                                                                    
                                                                               
 TERRY HOEFFERLE, an executive officer for the Bristol Bay Native              
 Association testifying from Dillingham, said the association has as           
 members approximately 90 percent of the 1,700 people that reside in           
 the Lake and Peninsula Borough.  He said he was asked to testify by           
 a Native allotment holder who has a Native allotment within the               
 boundaries of the Lake and Peninsula Borough.  The individual was             
 alarmed to find out that this particular piece of legislation even            
 existed, and is concerned about the possible impact that it might             
 have upon the future value and his continued use and enjoyment of             
 his Native allotment.  He pointed out that there are over 466 of              
 such Native allotment parcels within the LPB.  Mr. Hoefferle                  
 requested that the bill be held over until another legislative                
 session, and that the LPB be encouraged to hold public hearings               
 informing various interested members of their community about the             
 purpose and intent of the bill.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 497                                                                    
                                                                               
 ANGELA GERKEN, representing Iliaska Lodge and testifying from                 
 Homer, voiced her concern that the LPB plans to lease lands for new           
 lodges and development.  She noted the Lake and Peninsula Borough             
 started out as a school district, and in the last five years they             
 have pushed to become more than that, and the land grant issue                
 would give them a huge power base.  She suggested that the                    
 legislation needs to be looked at closely to see if it will benefit           
 the residents of the borough.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 535                                                                    
                                                                               
 TED GERKEN, owner and operator of the Iliaska Lodge at Lake Iliamna           
 for 18 years, stated the land grant to the LPB looks like one of              
 the largest land grants attempted in the State of Alaska by a                 
 borough that has been in existence for a few years, and he added              
 they really don't even need a borough there.  They spend a lot of             
 money in taxes to maintain the operation of the borough and they              
 receive absolutely no benefits.  He said there are already too many           
 lodges in the area, and, if the LPB wants to lease out more land to           
 put in more lodges, everybody is going to lose by this effort                 
 because there is limit to the resource that they are fishing for.             
 There needs to be a reasonable balance.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 555                                                                    
                                                                               
 KEITH HARSH, a concerned citizen testifying from Kenai, agreed with           
 comments by the previous speakers and also voiced concern that the            
 general public has not been aware of the existence of HB 259.                 
                                                                               
 Number 565                                                                    
                                                                               
 JERRY LIBOFF, Vice Chair of the Bristol Bay CRSA Board, testifying            
 from Dillingham, also urged delaying passage of HB 259 and to give            
 more opportunity for public hearings, specifically in the villages            
 in the borough that will be impacted by this decision.  He said no            
 one in any of these villages had any idea that this was being                 
 proposed.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 580                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asked how much privately owned ANSCA land exists in            
 and around the area being discussed.  JERRY LIBOFF answered that he           
 would guess there is probably close to 500,000 acres of corporation           
 land.                                                                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-29, SIDE B                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 012                                                                    
                                                                               
 SYLVIA CASSIDY of Homer and representing the Alaska Environmental             
 Lobby, stated the Alaska Environmental Lobby has two major concerns           
 about the consequences of HB 259:  (1) it is an excessively large             
 land grant and it would be a precedent for other boroughs that                
 incorporate in the future; the LPB request is disproportionate to             
 entitlements received by other boroughs on a per capita basis; and            
 (2) the state should retain control of and protect unique                     
 irreplaceable resources when it is in the best interest of the                
 state and the public to do so.  The LPB land selections are very              
 high public interest land with most of the parcels identified being           
 classified as wildlife habitat and wildlife habitat is not                    
 available for borough selection under current regulations.   Ms.              
 Cassidy said the Environmental Lobby would be more comfortable if             
 HB 259 were amended to prohibit boroughs from receiving any lands             
 identified as important fish and wildlife habitat and/or important            
 public resource lands.  However, their organization is opposed to             
 excessive transfer of land to a borough, excessive in terms of what           
 has been done with other boroughs which is basically 10 percent of            
 VUU lands.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 133                                                                    
                                                                               
 RON SWANSON, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural                
 Resources, said he has worked with municipalities and boroughs for            
 several years in trying to figure out what the best way to come up            
 with entitlement is.  The straight formula of 10 percent Vacant,              
 Unappropriated and Unreserved is probably not fair for every                  
 particular borough.                                                           
                                                                               
 LPB approached Mr. Swanson for a way to figure out what their                 
 entitlement should be, and he told them that under the current                
 statute it would be 11,000 acres.  The borough originally                     
 identified about 200,000 acres they wanted to select, the                     
 Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Fish & Game             
 reviewed the selections, and the departments concur with about                
 100,000 to 125,000 acres of those selections, but they have                   
 concerns with the rest.                                                       
                                                                               
 Mr. Swanson said he has never been able to find a formula that                
 works for every municipality.  Further, he knows that this is a               
 very political process, but he thinks it is one that should be more           
 open to the public where they can work with their local                       
 municipality and the state to figure out what type of land and for            
 what purposes it could be used.   He added that the selections made           
 by the LPB are definitely economic related, mainly recreational               
 parcels of land and some mineral potential lands where they could             
 raise revenue down the road.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 162                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR ADAMS asked Mr. Swanson if he was advancing the concept of            
 legislation for each borough with the allocated amount of whatever            
 land the Legislature feels it should give each one rather than                
 having 10 percent of VUUs as proposed in SB 375.  RON SWANSON                 
 acknowledged that was correct.  He believes it is much better for             
 the state, for the administration, and the local municipality to              
 come in and present their case and let the Legislature set the                
 policy for what they feel the entitlement should be and for what              
 type of purposes.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 175                                                                    
                                                                               
 Responding to a question from Senator Taylor concerning wildlife              
 habitat, Mr. Swanson clarified under the definition of "Vacant,               
 Unappropriated, Unreserved" in statute, wildlife habitat would not            
 be considered as part of figuring the formula, although                       
 municipalities can select wildlife habitat land and would then go             
 through a public process to see if it's appropriate to change the             
 classification.  He said that is exactly what would have to happen            
 with the Lake and Penn Borough.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 210                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked if the Department of Natural Resources           
 has a position on HB 259 and Mr. Swanson answered that they support           
 the bill in concept, but leave it up to the Legislature to figure             
 out what the entitlement should be.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 225                                                                    
                                                                               
 FRANK RUE, Director, Habitat & Restoration Division, Department of            
 Fish and Game, said, basically, the issue of whether this is the              
 appropriate number of acres is a concern the department would have,           
 but they leave it up to the Legislature to decide what is fair in             
 looking at all of the other boroughs.                                         
                                                                               
 He expressed the department's appreciation for the willingness of             
 the LPB to discuss the lands they would be interested in once they            
 got an entitlement.  The areas of concern to the department have              
 been along the Mulchatna River and Talarik Creek.  There concern              
 has been that those two areas remain in state ownership for public            
 use, commercial recreation, public recreation and public use                  
 subsistence.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Mr. Rue related that Fish and Game has been working with DNR and              
 borough to define lands which meet the needs of the borough.  He              
 said it is important that the process for selecting the actual                
 lands be the one that is laid out now in statute: DNR will go back            
 out to the communities once an entitlement is established and work            
 with the borough and the local communities to figure which lands              
 are actually going to be selected, and the public would have the              
 opportunity to comment on any changes.                                        
                                                                               
 Mr. Rue briefly discussed the department's concern with the                   
 selection of land along the entire Mulchatna River corridor.                  
                                                                               
 Number 350                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN requested that the committee be provided with a map             
 identifying these lands, the conflict areas, and what is suggested            
 for appropriation.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 365                                                                    
                                                                               
 BRUCE GERAGHTY, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Community &                
 Regional Affairs, stated the department's support for HB 259, as              
 well as the approach to providing entitlements to new boroughs in             
 this manner.  Many of DNR's land planning processes occurred prior            
 to the formation of boroughs, and this has restricted the                     
 availability of land to municipalities, boroughs in particular, to            
 generate revenues which provide services to the residents of that             
 area.  DCRA believes that local governments often serve the people            
 more adequately than does a government at a distance.                         
                                                                               
 Number 386                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR ZHAROFF asked if this process of municipal land selection             
 would it have priority over Mental Health Lands.  RON SWANSON                 
 answered that the Mental Health legislation, which is currently               
 pending in both houses, has a designated land list.  So, if that              
 legislation passes, they will know what the Mental Health Lands               
 will be.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 460                                                                    
                                                                               
 LAMAR COTTEN, representing the Lake and Peninsula Borough,                    
 explained to the committee the two-year planning process the                  
 borough conducted in selecting the 187,000 acres of land.   One of            
 the chief components of the planning process was trying to look               
 ahead to where they were going to fund programs that are, for the             
 most part, subsidized or paid for by the State of Alaska.  Through            
 that process they identified lands and narrowed it down to the                
 187,000 acres.                                                                
                                                                               
 Mr. Cotten said the borough's discussion to date has been that the            
 principal use of the land would be for commercial recreation since            
 that is the most likely buyer or user of the property.   The LPB              
 has agreed to public access to the property that they would own;              
 they would allow for shoreline easements, etc.                                
                                                                               
 Mr. Cotten said there has been a lot of public input by the                   
 residents of the borough, and the borough has responded to some of            
 their concerns.                                                               
                                                                               
 Speaking to a dispute that villages north of Lake and Penn had with           
 the LPB when it was first organized, Mr. Cotten said the LPB has no           
 interest in selecting any lands in that area until that court case            
 is resolved.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Mr. Cotten pointed out that even if this legislation passes, the              
 borough, along with DNR, has to go through a series of public                 
 hearings for any land that they select, so the public has not been,           
 nor will it be left out in the process.                                       
                                                                               
 Concluding his comments, Mr. Cotten said he believes HB 259 is a              
 good piece of legislation, not only for the Lake and Penn Borough,            
 but that it sets a good precedent for future boroughs.                        
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-30, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 Mr. Cotten responded to several questions from witnesses relating             
 to the public hearing process; studies of prospective new lodge               
 sites; and public access along anadromous waterways.                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the public hearing on HB 259 and                
 stated it would be back before the committee at its next meeting on           
 Thursday, April 21.                                                           
 It was announced that  SB 375  (GENERAL GRANT LAND ENTITLEMENTS)              
 would be held over until the committee's next meeting on Thursday,            
 April 21.                                                                     
 There being no further business to come before the committee, the             
 meeting was adjourned at 10:55 a.m.                                           
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects